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Blizzard has announced release date for Mists of Pandaria
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bringoutyourdead
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Blizzard has announced release date for Mists of Pandaria Reply with quote

And yes just to let you know

CensusPlus for MoP is under development.

Currently the target changes are in place and testing is happening to see why it just doesn't work out of the box.

But then you will notice there are very few addon's that authors are willing to call ready for MoP at this time.

Once Blizzard stabilizes the client and the addon is stable, Rollie will have the info he needs to make his website and database changes.

And to the question: When will it be released.. I leave you to the standard Blizzard answer... when it is ready.. and not a moment sooner. (But we hope with fewer hot fix patches!) Laughing
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1974ER
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am very glad to hear that you are busy helping Rollie out. The only tricky thing is that Blizzard has put you two on a deadline. If things aren't ok by September 25th... or actually 24th, because EU hits MoP a few hours ahead of US, we'll start bleeding data, in the worst case, all of it, if the current build doesn't work with MoP at all.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cata launch springs to mind...

I'm not going to keep dozens of CP files stored for weeks again...
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bringoutyourdead
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is what we are trying to not happen.

We are capturing data from 90-1 at this time
and on the in game display we do have the updated race,class,level bars and stuff displaying.

We are still adjusting the in game display.. it is a bit ugly at this time.. but getting better with each code reiteration.

We are not ready at this time to send test samples to Rollie because of the way Blizzard has opened the Beta.. it has mixed character sets from all regions.. so we are seeing
US, EU, EU-Cryillic, Korean, Chinese?? and who knows what in the data... this would just break things. I may have to hand edit out the non Latin-1 data for the test submissions.

Also at this time we are working on speed issues. I don't know if we are being limited by Blizzards changes for MoP or just limits they may have in the Beta environment. There are some oddities that were introduced with the Ace2 libwho that I'm exploring at this time.

the other clean up issue besides dead api calls that Blizzard has abandoned have to do with the Global Table usage. Since all addons have full access to that table, it is easy to make a mistake an have addons stomping on each other given odd hard to reproduce errors. I've built tools to examine CensusPlus' impact on that table so I can clean that out.

Good news for the future certain changes made will make updating easier for the next expansions from 90-95 and from 95-100.

Unless Blizzard coders toss another curve ball at us.. with API changes, etc.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just throw out there, that if you need any help\testing with the new mod, I'll be glad to run it and report back\upload. Though it sounds like you got that part covered and just have to fix some other new and exciting issues.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a long time user of WarcraftRealms (and a haphazard contributer) I just want to say THANK YOU for stepping up to help Roli keep this project going. WR is the only one of it's kind and I was very sad to know it was likely going to die with Mists.
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1974ER
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just recently realized I made one rather major mistake concerning time available. Sad There will naturally be a pre-patch, which will go live before 25th September, cutting down the remaining time.

I haven't yet seen that date, which means that it either has not been published yet or I have missed it.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing has been stated.. but I don't think it will be live for very long before the expansion goes live.

I expect a week but that is just a guess.
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bringoutyourdead
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patch days... never have they been more of a bother and a worry then when it happens with a Beta. For me basically a full day blown. Well I guess it gives me an opportunity to update you on the addon.

As you should be able to tell CensusPlus is one of the elder addons for World of Warcraft. The addon and www.warcraftrealms.com have been going since the end of 2004 about the time for patch 1.1 to 1.2 of World of Warcraft. Due to the long history of the addon there have been many changes over the years. Including many paths that had been taken and later abandoned as Blizzard made changes to WoW and to their battle.net websites and the CensusPlus code shows its age.

Much of the programming process for addons have changed over the years. Coding that was required back in the early days are now non-functional, deprecated, potentially damaging (to other addons) or just plain inefficient.

When working within the WoW programming space programmers have access to two data areas.. 'Global' which everyone can access and modify and 'Local' which is private to the scope of the variable definition.

The current beta the Global table on entering the world (with one very small addon to get the data) you get over 95 thousand variable items. When a barely functional CensusPlus finished a census run (with !Swatter a debugging addon added to the mix) the Global table had grown to over 222 thousand variable items. No these weren't all CensusPlus.. but with CensusPlus doing a census run and the tester wandered the (starting) zone finding things and killing mobs WoW keeps adding more active functional data into the table. The bigger this table gets the longer it takes for addons to find and update their variables, this is why you want to do as much as you can in your private data space.

But.. When WoW first started you had to work in two environments. First you had to make xxx.xml (extensible markup language) files to create the presentation for your addon. Then you worked in Lua language files to script all the interactions between your xxx.xml and the game UI (user interface.) The kicker.. is that all data defined by your xxx.xml files must live in the global space.

If you look at the newest created addons written by very good authors you will see that the xxx.xml is almost or completely non-existent in that the environment Blizzard now allows people to use Lua directly to create the presentation layer for addons. Unfortunately that isn't something we can do for CensusPlus with the time we have before MoP goes live. But I'm thinking that may be a future update down the road.

With each patch release of Wow (and even more each beta test patch) Blizzard adds, modifies and/or deletes API function calls that programmers use to work in the game environment. That fact is what makes the current CensusPlus nonfunctional in the Beta. Even the way addons access the global data table has changed [that change was announce long ago.. but went into effect with the Beta].

As you can tell from the above at one time(at least Shocked ) during the beta upgrade work, we did get live and functional data from CensusPlus.

We are still having issues with simple things like:

1- the Minimap CensusPlus button.

2- the /commands

3- and issues I have with the fact that since wholib was added to CensusPlus we have had friendly relationships with other addons that use the who service but at a penalty of duplicate processing in CensusPlus. Wholib does full processing but wasn't correctly connected to CensusPlus so CensusPlus had to go back and reprocess the data for each query done.

As of just before the testing cycle for today which got stopped by Blizzard doing patch updates the following are being investigated or integrated into CensusPlus.

1- All the actions that should have happened with the mini-map CP button either were not happening or were happening only by happy circumstances with the current live version of CensusPlus. The issue is that pressing and releasing your mouse button on the CP button generates multiple game events. If the events happen in a certain order then what Rollie wanted to happen did. But if they didn't it didn't.. and per Blizzard you can not depend on the order in which events get reported back to the game client. I looked at a number of different approaches that people were using for this problem and wasn't happy with any of them. We believe that as of our last test cycle.. we have a acceptable solution that will allow the same look and feel for addon users.

2- the slash (/) commands are still a problem.. we were in the middle of testing when they took the beta away from us. I have a couple of ideas as to what is causing the problem but we need more step by step testing to see the exact fail point. And boy does it fail Client crashes with divide by zero error. (yet I swear that all the forgotten places where a division takes place and the divisor could by mistake be zero have been protected against.) This is an issue that Blizzard has been noticing with a number of addons, so the problem might not even be in the CensusPlus coding.

3- Yesterday we had a successful run (in a debug testing addon) to simulate directly using the wholib data without resorting to duplicate work. After the the slash command issue is resolved this will be integrated into CensusPlus. Now that I know what needs to be done it won't be too difficult.

So with all that to do what is working.

The background artwork was modified to allow us to expand the number of races/ classes and levels presented in game.
The new Pandaren and Monk items are in an functional.
With this MoP expansion the levels displayed in game is changing from the current of 6-85 to 4-90 (having both new class and race gave us more room)

Data is/ has been collected, but we have a minor problem in that Blizzard has mixed all languages and character types into the same realm so our saved data has characters that Rollie can't handle in his database.

That is not a condition that Blizzard will have in effect when they go live so it won't be a problem then.. but I'll need to hand edit out the Chinese, Korean, Russian out of the data set before Rollie can start is web side processing tests.

And the big question you have.. when will it be ready...

When it is. And NO SOONER

I think the updated addon will be able to continue to work with the current 4.3 WoW... but Rollie will need (if he decides to go that way) some logic changes in his update processing to be able to handle both the current CensusPlus for 4.3 WoW and the new CensusPlus for 4.3&5.x

It is a somewhat minor change.. in that with the added class there is a new counter item passed in the data file.. and Rollie needs to accept and then ignore that item until Monks go live.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is quite the summary - having done some of said beta testing, I can say we all owe bringoutyourdead bigtime for the work he's put into this! I've seen just how many versions it's taken to get as far as it's got so far, and we're up to around the 32nd version I've seen... might've lost count a bit there Razz

We've progressed a long way though and I'm confident bringoutyourdead will have it working in time for 5.0 (although I sure hope that patch comes as late as possible before the expansion!) Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admittably, this is guesswork too, but I spoke with several other long time players. Most suggested about two weeks before launch, citing 11th (US) / 12th (EU) or "roughly two weeks earlier" as likely date for the pre-patch activation. End of this month and only a week before got a few votes, too.

I am glad to hear that there has been a lot of progress. On the other hand I get a worrying impression that the pre-patch will render the current Censusplus (5.0.2) completely non-operational. Is that impression correct?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm afraid that impression is correct. I tried the current Censusplus and it kinda functioned but with a million lua errors and failed on the end of the census, not saving anything. So it's basically not going to be any use, but hopefully we've got enough time before that patch, I'd agree with the 2 weeks estimate myself.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And Blizzard takes the beta down again... probably to undo something they added in the last patch... yesterday.

Balgair is use to seeing that in betaware.. Rolling Eyes Sometimes we have to take tiny steps and then check nothing got broke then do it again. Changing too many things at one time just leads to confusion when something breaks.. you don't know what caused the break.. or if it was anything we did.. maybe it was Blizzard.

At least today we were able to verify what is causing the /slash commands to fail to work. Blizzard made a change.. and I am guessing it had to do with the fact they are mixing multiple character set languages into one realm.

Beta testers are seeing lots of names that they either can't render (without having the language pack) or that are so out there [multi-byte character set] i.e. Korean and Chinese that ends up being rendered as just blank space.

When the server comes back up Balgair will do a couple more test runs to verify and then I'll either ignore the problem since Blizzard will have to back this out.. or I have to come up with a solution because in the future Blizzard will have these mixed up situations in live.

Time to go back to searching the web for comments other addon authors are saying about this issue.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Balgair wrote:
So it's basically not going to be any use, but hopefully we've got enough time before that patch, I'd agree with the 2 weeks estimate myself.
If memory serves me right, both Cata pre-patch and WotLK pre-patch came out 3 weeks before the actual expansion..
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Balgair wrote:
I'm afraid that impression is correct. I tried the current Censusplus and it kinda functioned but with a million lua errors and failed on the end of the census, not saving anything. So it's basically not going to be any use, but hopefully we've got enough time before that patch, I'd agree with the 2 weeks estimate myself.


Then we are pretty much at a make or break point. We are already pretty much at record low level of incoming data and if the current version fails, even the stockpiling technique that Fuxie dreaded is not going to be an alternative, because we won't be able to stockpile even if we want to.

Additionally, a complete breakdown will likely cost us even more of the less frequent submission makers. As of right now, Balgair and I already make up about 50% of top 10 new ones list (about 40k vs 40k) and well over 50% of the top 10 updates (about 119k vs 100k) for this month.

Therefore, I wish everyone who is working hard on keeping the addon functional lots of luck!
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm confident it'll be functioning in time, whenever the beta server finally comes up today we can test the slash commands and see if that issue is actually solved, then it's down to the minimap button and a few other details. But it's already gathering data fine, we just have to get the UI functional Smile

As for low submissions, that's probably due to lower playing numbers, which will come back up when people have something to do that hasn't been out for most of a year already. At least, I hope so! My high new ones numbers at present are down to me trying to clear out some of the 0s on the most wanted list, and I can barely keep up with Spanish and French servers (which there aren't many of), waaay too many being left uncensused atm.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, ladies and gentlemen, we are now officially in trouble. Pre-patch data has been made available and according to some predictions, it will go live in the US in about 42 hours, and about 24 hours later in EU.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't believe that at all, the data being available for download does not mean it comes out the same week. Can't remember any occasion that's happened, we're FAR too soon for it. Maybe 2 weeks from now, maybe, but no way it's happening this week, the classes are nowhere near balanced atm so it'd completely wreck the game if they pushed it live now.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1974ER wrote:
Well, ladies and gentlemen, we are now officially in trouble. Pre-patch data has been made available and according to some predictions, it will go live in the US in about 42 hours, and about 24 hours later in EU.
Highly unlikely..
Sticking to "tradition" (from WotLK and Cata), it will most likely be 4/9-12 or 11/9-12..

It's only data-files available in Launcher, so far..
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I'd agree, possibly the earlier date since they are so early with the pre-download but I don't expect to see it this month, or at soonest, very late in the month indeed. We've got at least 2 weeks I think, probably more.

And if all else fails, I imagine bringoutyourdead can cobble together a mainly functional version with a few features disabled until it all works; we've got working censuses gathering data (not as efficiently as he would like, but they do work), it's getting the UI to connect with the functions that's the biggest issue at present, but it'd be possible to get an interim one going, I reckon, until it's fully fixed up.
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